June 6, 2007
Is it child abuse to have children you can’t afford? I say no.
Posted by coolbeans under Family, Uncategorized | Tags: Uncategorized, What She Said |Karen has started a discussion about raising healthy kids. In her post, she says:
Yesterday, the author of Violent Acres wrote this amazing post as a follow up to another one, both based on the fact that it is child abuse to have children you can’t afford. Her example was indicative of part of what is wrong with our society. Hello Queen of Obvious, once again, you hit the nail on the head.
I would like to address this idea:
…it is child abuse to have children you can’t afford.
There are several things wrong with this argument. First, it’s abstract. How much income is enough to afford having a child? When posed it this way, and including a very generous weekly grocery budget ($150 for Karen’s family of four), one immediately excludes a large portion of the population.
Second, abuse is abuse. I refuse to accept the labeling of WIC recipients as child abusers. I also won’t accept that the majority of people on government assistance are “deadbeats”. I won’t deny that some may be taking advantage and could do more on their own, but pointing at extreme examples to make this point is wrong.
There are people who work very hard at labor-intensive jobs who don’t earn a fair living wage. THAT is the underlying problem here. We should value the work people do and pay them accordingly. It should pay as much to get your hands dirty as it does to suffer an occasional paper cut. A family should be able to support themselves on one full-time income. Two full-time incomes should be the exception, not the rule.
Violent Acres argues that parents who qualify for and receive government assistance are nothing more than babysitters. She also wants parents to work their asses off to provide for their children.
But wait. Who is minding the children while these parents are out there working their asses off? Babysitters! Huh? What? Insult someone for being nothing more than a babysitter and then insist they HIRE ONE.
Also, while working your ass off to support your kids, you need to plan healthy meals with expensive and highly perishable food. Work more, make more trips to the grocer, cook food that takes longer to prep and make sure you have quality time with your kids so you’re not just being a babysitter.
All of this is so insulting to people who work hard but are still struggling to make the ends meet. I wish everyone had enough to eat and didn’t have to choose between groceries and rent, but that is not reality. Violent Acres insists this is not a class issue. But how can it not be? Someone tell me how it’s not.
June 6, 2007 at 11:36 am
It’s a class issue.
It’s also wrong for many other reasons. One is: What the hell is wrong with the government paying for children to eat? I pay taxes. What do you think I want them to go toward? The war in Iraq? Torturing prisoners in Guantanamo Bay? I’ll give you a big hint. I would like my taxes to go for programs that support children and families with the things they need.
I don’t buy this Calvinist victim-blaming, individualist bullshit.
June 6, 2007 at 12:51 pm
“First, it’s abstract. How much income is enough to afford having a child?”
It’s not abstract at all. If you can afford to feed and clothe them by yourself, it’s enough money.
“One is: What the hell is wrong with the government paying for children to eat? I pay taxes. What do you think I want them to go toward?”
They shouldn’t HAVE to go towards feeding kids. The point is, there wouldn’t BE starving kids if these abusers would make sure they could provide for the children before having them.
If you didn’t have to pay to feed someone else’s kids, you could keep that money yourself. It wouldn’t need to be collected in the first place. Personally, that’s a much better situation. If you want to then use the money you’re saving and donate it to some starving kid foundation, that’s your prerogative.
June 6, 2007 at 5:59 pm
yuvu said:
They shouldn’t HAVE to go towards feeding kids. The point is, there wouldn’t BE starving kids if these abusers would make sure they could provide for the children before having them.
–
So here’s an idea. What if you get pregnant on the assumption that you will continue to be married or partnered and have at least one income, maybe two, and then after your child is born, you become single? That’s a case in which the potential parent–who is always female, because it’s not a dad making this decision–has made her decision with faulty information. Maybe she thought her partner or spouse would stick around, and he doesn’t. Or she didn’t realize he would start hitting her.
Or maybe she was ready to support a child on her own, but she loses her job, or her childcare.
I don’t agree with the premise that not having money is a crime, understand. But let’s say I did agree with your idea that it’s really bad to have children without the means to support them. It is still obvious that there are many circumstances in which a woman on her own with a child or children could lose the means to support them.
June 6, 2007 at 7:02 pm
How much does one full-time job have to pay in order to support an entire family? For that matter, how large a family can that be? Should the minimum wage guarantee support for a family of six on one income? What about a family of eight? Ten? Twelve?
Personally, I would prefer a minimum wage that’s enough to keep two adults and two children above the poverty line. As far as I’m concerned, that’s the minimum, and maximum, that anyone is owed by their employer. After that point, you’re on your own in planning your family and lifestyle.
June 6, 2007 at 10:08 pm
yuvu - I would have said what Ruthie said, only not as well as she said it.
rrpa - I have those same questions. And at first, your idea of a minimum wage that keeps four people above the poverty line seems reasonable enough. But it doesn’t address blended families, single-parent families, parents and/or children who have special medical or educational requirements. That sort of plan would have to be flexible regarding location as well. Then we’re looking at possible (perhaps unavoidable) discrimination in employment due to the financial needs of one’s family. It’s also not too far a stretch before we’re only allowed two children per family under that kind of system. Scary.
Having thought on this throughout the day, I think that my biggest problem is this: The articles I linked to in my post are easy arguments based on widely accepted assumptions that people who need and receive help are lazy, worthless, bottom-feeding, deadbeat losers who deserve to have to work very hard to live in sub-standard conditions and should never have anything that isn’t an absolute bare-minimum need.
It’s really hard to say all that if you’re in it. It’s much easier to say it when you can afford to spend $150 a week for your groceries and have a comfortable home, health care and enough money to fly to another country for an expensive weekend of fun with your gal pals.
June 7, 2007 at 6:14 am
Its always easier for the Haves to pontificate on the lifestyles of the Have Nots, huh?
June 7, 2007 at 3:16 pm
I have written a million comments to this post over the last day and I am still too angry to write. I didn’t even click to the original post because yuvu’s comment got me angry enough to EXPLODE. So, All I will say.
Ruthie-You are wise.
Coolbeans-You rock.
yuvu-
According to you I am a child abuser. I lost everything I had and had two children on Medicaid (Once because I was dirt poor due to life sucking mainly beyond my control and once because we ran our own business and I didn’t qualify for my own insurance.) Just because I not in that situation now doesn’t mean I don’t remember the stress, pain and HUMILIATION that comes with it. This comment was like kicking a dog when they are already down.
How lucky it must be to be you as you are obviously superior in your choices and life situation. I am going to try and ignore the smugness in your post. I hope you never have to live in poverty cause guess what? You can BE THROWN there despite ALL the good choices you make. There are a billion things beyond your control. And if you do happen to fall to that level and happen to get pregnant I hope there isn’t someone out there sticking the label of child abuser on you because you have to turn to the government for support.
Actually, that is sort of a lie. There is definitely a part of me that is petty enough to hope your smug butt would land RIGHT THERE and that you would have to read things like this.
I am no child abuser. And yes, you DID mean ME. Next time, try and pull your head out of your black and white world and realize that generalizations like that are not only unrealistic but just make you look like a grody person.
P.S.
I am making a pretty good living and I STILL can’t afford $150 a week simply for groceries! I spent half that. Seriously, they need to get the hell off the high horse. K-I’m going to go cool off now. I really think this is THE most pissed off I have ever been on a comment. Good thing I didn’t go to the original.
June 8, 2007 at 12:08 am
Ah hails no. All three of my kids were born while we were in the throes of poverty. And now we’re not in the throes of poverty.
I’m a libertarian, so I’m all about people working hard to earn their keep. But I dare anyone, ANYONE to tell a poor parent to their face that they are less of a parent because they’re low income. Anyone who has done it knows that parenting on limited resources is harder than parenting on a middle-class high horse.
So I’m going to get off my lower income high horse and go back to being funny again.
Great post.
June 8, 2007 at 12:26 pm
Okay, so after having actually GONE to violent acres website, one wonders…What in the world would make you read that right wing garbage, anyway??!!
And this is coming from a right wingist!!
Shes a bonafide nut job.
June 8, 2007 at 12:29 pm
okay, nevermind…you saw it on Karens post…der. Ill stop bothering you now
June 8, 2007 at 12:46 pm
jen - I read a little beyond those two posts the other day. She’s shocking for the sake of being shocking. She hates parents, children, mothers, people. It is all vile.
June 10, 2007 at 12:10 pm
I kind of got that feeling as I read a little past that post as well. She is one unhappy woman.
June 12, 2007 at 1:50 pm
I’m closing comments on this post. Discussion on this one can get out of hand quickly and I’m not around enough to properly moderate. If you’d like to discuss it further, you are welcome to email me at coolbeansmamaATgmailDOTcom or start a new post on your own website.